Episode 36: Natali Herrera-Pacheco – Photographer Writer & Artist

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In this episode, Natali Herrera-Pacheco discusses her creative journey from her formal education in Spain and Venezuela to living the creative life in the United States.

We were excited to learn about her understanding and experiences with ritual music from her native city in South America. She expresses her passion about understanding human nature and the power of family. Natali uses her camera to collect reality images of day-to-day life in today’s world.

Show Notes:

Episode 36: NataliHerrera-Pacheco Photographer Writer & Artist

00:00:18 – 00:05:03

Okay so what are you drinking in that cool Yeti cup of yours? It is cool isn’t it? I really love this cup but you know in one way I wish I would have got an orange one like you have. Why? I like your white one. It looks so good but what are you drinking? Mineral water from where they think they found Noah’s ark I believe near Turkey and Armenia. Wow that’s mount all right. Well I know one thing for sure it really really helps clear my voice. And I love the taste of this stuff. Well I want to sip. Here here you go. Okay. Hi everyone and here we are celebrating what people love to do creatively by giving them a voice. I’m Rudd Jones. And I’m Angie Jones welcome to the thought rope podcast. We invite you to subscribe wherever you listen. And we’re available virtually anywhere you listen to podcasts and also check us out on thought rope podcast dot com. There you can listen to our episodes and find out a little bit more about what each guest their background is and some photos of them. And also you can drop us a line. Yes and we would love to hear from you. And don’t be shy you know it’s pretty easy to do. You just go to the contact us page and give us your thoughts. We love to hear what you have to say. Your thoughts and ideas on the thought row podcast. Plus we answer everybody. I mean we’re pretty good at that. So don’t be afraid to reach out to us. Yeah absolutely. We won’t ignore your email like when you send emails to some places sometimes you don’t get a reply back. But no we actually reply back. And it’s super easy on the contact form all you have to do is put your email type in your message and hit send. It’s really simple. Yeah in fact I think we responded to some people today. Yeah we do. Okay how about my favorite part? Your weekly quote. Okay this is a really great quote. And it’s a be brave take risk nothing can substitute experience and that’s by Paulo coelho and I’m going to tell you a little bit about him because once I got the quote I wanted to find out more about him because I wasn’t really like it didn’t jell it who it was. Okay he is a lyricist and a novelist who has become one of the most widely read authors in the world. And he’s one of the most famous Latin Americans today. And he’s most celebrated novel is an international bestseller the alchemist which has been translated into 80 languages and sold more than 65 million copies. It tells the story of a young shepherd on a spiritual journey to the Egyptian pyramid in search of treasure. You know what? He would be a perfect guest. He would. He would be perfect. I’m sure he would have much to say. And our listeners would certainly learn by him as one of the most famous novelists. Yeah that’s quite a quite a lot of copies out there in the world. And I suspect his journey is creative journey must have been incredible and I’m sure there was great days and I’m sure there were difficult days but he’s really accomplished a lot. I don’t think there’s too many authors out there that have the same. That’s quite yeah. That’s quite a pedigree to have really. Yeah. And you’re exciting. Have you read the book? I have not read the book but now it’s on my list to read because I don’t know how it’s escaped my radar but it has. Well I’ve certainly heard of the book and I did a little research on him like you said for this podcast. But now I want to read that book. Absolutely yeah. So maybe we should start a book club. We can all read it and have a discussion on some social media somewhere. That could be fun. That could be kind of fun. Something to think about. So tell us on the contact page would you like to do that? And let us know. Yeah we just need more work. Yeah we just need more work to do. Okay so now it’s your turn rod. We’re ready for rods motivational moments. Well you know what? I’m going to pick up a little bit from your and mine is it’s best to pursue your dreams by following what your heart desires or what your heart desires most. Isn’t that the truth though if you don’t follow your heart desires you’re usually not really happy you feel frustrated and you want to always get to that point where you can do something you really enjoy.

00:05:03 – 00:10:00

Well as you know we’ve discussed this before and listen to that little still voice within you. And sometimes it’s hard to tune into that voice but it’s well worth it because you discover so many interesting things about what you really feel about what you care about what’s important to you. Those could be good guides as to what you may want to achieve in life. Maybe you want to go to Egypt and find your own treasure. That could be it. That could be it. But I know we live in a world filled with opportunities. So it’s just a matter of identifying the ones that suit you the best. Yes and you know I think that every creative person that a lot of times they don’t like this word necessarily or they don’t want to think of themselves as being entrepreneurs but every creative person is an entrepreneur. As an entrepreneur your responsible for your own game your responsible for creating the business of selling your creativity rather it be art or if you’re a singer a pianist whatever that case may be it’s really important to identify yourself a little bit as an entrepreneur. You’re a business person and there’s been books written about creative people not really embracing or understanding that side of the business but being an entrepreneur be excited. Well also though I think a lot of times creative people that’s the word that they don’t want to hear because they would rather be doing their craft painting singing dancing whatever it may be writing and to sit there and have to market yourself is another whole enchilada. I think that they just go gosh no. I don’t want to do that. I want to do the things I like to do. And unfortunately it comes with the territory. You have to do some marketing. Otherwise people don’t know about you. Yeah they don’t know about you. They certainly can’t. I can’t sell your work. Well you can’t sell it. They can’t see it. They don’t appreciate it. And there’s some pretty incredible people out there that are pursuing their creative life in turning out some wonderful art that people just aren’t even seeing it because people aren’t out there marketing it for lack of a better term. True and you’re not selling out when you do that by the way. Nope. I don’t think that is not a sellout. So yeah and in this day and age you can access information on any topic and use it to channel your thoughts on how you want to succeed in life like understanding the aspect of marketing and letting people know about your creativity. True. And then you know as far as accessing info I love YouTube you can get so much information on there on a variety of things. Sometimes you have to look a little harder because some people’s videos are not very comprehensive. But for the most part you can find out a lot of information on there and also just on the Internet itself. I think when people are afraid to do and become really good at this is doing long tail search terms. You are so good at that. Instead of just tell me about the color black I’ll write two or three cents. Sometimes I’ll write a whole paragraph asking a question and Google loves that. The algorithms seek out every bit of information that you provide at the more information you give them more information return. That’s so true. This could be closer to what you’re actually asking. You won’t have to go through pages before you get to your answers. How do I make it in detail? How do I market my art? But better yet how do I market my creative landscape abstract art? Be specific. I do in California. There you go. That’s really specific. That’s a long tail but they work. Well see I’m learning from you even though I see what you do all the time. But I guess we learned from each other. And our podcast thought wrote podcast is about that by listening to others and how maybe it applies in our lives and how it might shape your life or what you can get out from inspiration and having our own takeaways. Well judging from the feedback we get from our listeners. One thing that always comes across as they go I just learned so much about being creative by listening to what this other person had to say or they say God I could really relate with that person even though they’re entirely on the other side of the world. And maybe doing something entirely different. Entirely different but yet just understanding their creative journey and the things that their trials and tribulations in life and you know we all learn from that and we can learn from other people’s experiences and maybe just maybe hopefully not have to live some of them.

00:10:00 – 00:15:07

Yeah and I think people when they’re express themselves sometimes and they’re telling their life experience it’s not because they’re just so into themselves. It’s really because they want to impart wisdom and not have you go through that crappy experience. And I think it’s they’re trying to be helpful when they do that. They’re very genuine. We’re very thankful to our guests. I mean they’re extremely genuine and very open about what they have to say. Yeah and I think the one thing that we all have to be careful of of course is we can’t model ourselves a 100% off of someone else’s life and we need to stay true to ourselves. You know adapt the information that’s given. But make it work for you. Yeah being true to yourself we look at other people’s successes and we’ll get a little maybe envious or saying I wish I could do that whatever. You should celebrate other people’s successes because you want them to celebrate yours when you have them be happy for others. But also celebrate your own successes even the teeny ones turn out to be major ones as you move forward in your career. And sometimes the teeny ones are just like the preheating to what is great to become. So yeah don’t push that side. It’s just a little of whatever. But you never know where it’s going to lead. Wow Angie. That’s a good point. Yeah. But let’s move on who’s going to be our guest today? Okay well today we’re going to be speaking with Natalie Herrera Pacheco. Herrera. I’m trying. You know I lost the ability to roll my rs and I’m hoping it will come back. I know for some reason it seems to have stuck with me. You know from our initial conversations with Natalie I’m so glad we’re having her as a guest and I might add it’s very interesting to listen to her. You know I was particularly impressed by her philosophy and her creativity and especially her life’s journey. She’s a great guest and I’m so excited that we’re having her on today. Yeah I think you guys are really going to enjoy this. So let’s bring her on now. Yes. Natalie welcome to the thought row podcast. You know we’re always excited to have a guest that has lived their life. So incredibly creatively like you have. Hi Natalie and yes it’s going to be an interesting interview for us. And our listeners to hear your story. Oh thank you so much for inviting me and I’m so happy to be here with you in this wonderful space. Oh thank you. Thank you. Well before we get started with the interview officially we always like to ask our guests what they had for breakfast. So what did you have for breakfast? Well I always have for breakfast exactly the same every single day which is over the meal with some nuts. I have a syrup. I’m on blueberries and coffee probably too much coffee. But every day yeah. Well that’s pretty healthy. That’s pretty healthy for all the way around. That’s my way to give some kind of sense to my day. Yeah well you know what gives you energy a blueberries for your vision. Your vision. So very good. Yeah. Well you know after I want to talk a little bit about your website after engine and I had the opportunity to review your website which I was pretty spectacular. I mean you have a lot of really beautiful. A lot of information on there your background your history and of course a lot of your photographs. You’ve really accomplished quite a bit in your life. But I think we would like to know what was your child a childhood like and when did you first start thinking about photography? Well I did have a very nice childhood. I have to say. And if I want to start with the beginning I’ll say that I am the youngest of four and the different between my brothers and my sister and my two girls and I 9 years. So fun story is that my mom went to the doctor to have. Her tubes tied and she called them because she was pregnant and that was me. I was a mistake. But you were a good mistake see? I think so. So because of by the time ultrasound was not like a big thing. They told her that I was a boy. And surprise again I was a girl. And they didn’t have a name for me. So I was the girl without a name from a long time until they got a name but it was like month without a name.

00:15:09 – 00:20:04

Wow. So. That I think was like a fun story how that. And neither of my parents did art as profession but they were and still are very very creative. And I remember all the time looking at them fixing stuff and my mom creating those that she also did underwear close to sell in order to have some extra money. Right. So I was always behind her chair drawing and he was all creating stuff. And I feel like a great admire them but mostly like my mom doing thing from scratch. That’s something that I was so nice to have in my daily life. That’s so nice. Sure that she’s obviously very creative and you as a young girl. You get to watch all this watch all that and learn and see what she was doing. Tell us more. Yeah. Yeah and I think it was a real privilege to have her every day. And I know that was also for her big sacrifice but she was always there with her eyes on me and in my siblings. So I really know that that was a opportunity. And about photography I started thinking about photography very early in my life because I noticed that my seamless they have a lot more pictures that I have at the time. So that was because of the history also of economic crisis. Like having picture who was very expensive like printing them buy and feeling and my dad didn’t have the money to spend in bad things. So I got the sense of photography and history very early. I wanted the pictures and I wanted my data to take picture of me and I really wanted to talk that wonderful magical object that was the camera. So I started thinking about photos and history like right from I was growing up. See that’s really amazing because it’s just a little thing of having your siblings have photos and you didn’t have as many kind of inspired you to get into photography to achieve and to achieve and to be creative. So that’s really interesting where inspiration comes from. So I also Natalie think it’s very interesting how you came into this world. You were really obvious. It was obvious that you were meant to be here and I think they did a good job picking a name for you. Yeah. It’s a beautiful name. Yeah I love it. It’s a beautiful name. Yeah. So we know that your family is very important to you from the stories you’re just telling us. But you no longer live in Venezuela. It seems like it has created a hardship for you and your family because you can’t be together. But tell us about that. How do you handle that? Well I think that being away from family is something that is natural. It happens to a lot of people. You get a routine is probably in part like gain your space in most of the cases. But I think what is hard allow is not being a way but the impossibility of going back. In this situation it was very interesting for me because I got to connect with people in other places. And build something of empathy what it means to. See your beloved people through a screen. And that you know that you can not toast them that you can not travel and see them in person. So I think right or hug them or even hug them yeah. Yeah see their eyes. So you learn that this is a good moment because you have technology and you find ways to be present but is hard for me and also for them to see our process was becoming older and not being there. So you get really attached to the technology part. So you get you have to be creative. You have to like call see the patio see the birds you have to ask them how are things going? And use these little artifacts and getting involved in the narrative through their metallic voices. And it’s not easy but it’s also an opportunity that we have right now.

00:20:04 – 00:25:03

Well I guess you could be thankful that we do have that technology now because not too many years ago the best you could hope for was a phone call. Yeah. Yeah. Most of the cases yeah. Yeah and that was very expensive too way back in the day. So yeah thank God now it’s a little bit more open and cost effective. Yeah definitely. So it’s a huge change and it makes a difference. Oh yeah definitely it does. So we know you live here in the United States. So how did you end up living in the United States and where did you what did you and where did you study? Well we came here because of my husband in we came at the beginning to mission where he did his masters. And then we started looking for other opportunities. He got to go to his doctor program. So that’s why we ended here and we started like just staying and that was the reason we ended here. And ideas started here but I did my PhD while leaving here. And in Spain so it was my way to keep my head running and kind of keep this like adventure of being in different places at the same time. Sure. Right. Well it looks to me like you know both of your both you and your husband are very well educated and I know that we learn from your website and conversations that we’ve had with you that you hold several degrees and you’ve been educated in other universities outside of the United States. Would you share with us that what was that experience like Natalie coming from Venezuela and then completely to a new environment? So different. Yeah I think that most traumatic thing about it is the construction of otherness like understanding that you are the author. And you start building an identity about it. For example I didn’t know that I was from a country called Venezuela because when you are in your country you’re never used Venezuela. No. I was from my street and I was from my probably from my city and from my state but never from a country and I started telling Venezuela when I got here. So that’s construction of the national identity was probably the biggest effort and I’m still working on it. Like I am the other and I am from that abstract territorial Venezuela. And also it gave me the possibility this situation of living in another country is like a part a deal that you have. So you have yeah the opportunity to create that identity but you have to learn it go because you are embracing other cultures. I like the way that parties meet the poet and writer she wants speaking out New York she said New York for me in New York deformed me. And I think that’s the experience of being a way and with the situation of going to universities you learn you get more content you get education but the living experience that construction is what form you and deform you. I guess. I think that I think you stated that quite beautifully. I did. That’s really beautiful. It’s really beautiful. And that is so true. A lot of times people in the country that they live in and we’ve interviewed people from multiple countries that they don’t necessarily have ever had the opportunity maybe to go study outside of their country. So they’re totally focused on what goes on their daily lives in their country. But you had I guess for lack of a better term you had to immerse yourself in another culture. And if I remember right you had to learn how to speak English is that correct? Yeah. Yeah that was part of the process. I didn’t know even a single word in English like different than high or hello. So it was a. Long process of creating a sentence for thinking about who am I. Like everything like creating everything. Oh yeah I mean you have to think Angie can relate to that because she speaks Turkish and then if she’s thinking in Turkey it’s not like they can English transfer it.

00:25:04 – 00:30:00

Which I’m sure that you when you think in your language it’s much different than you know when you express yourself through English because sometimes the words are not there. Yeah sometimes I feel like it’s like a character. I am not still in the place where I feel natural I think I have to put another skin in order to try to express myself in the way that I think I am in Spanish. But it’s quite different. And you see interesting now. So it’s like being an actor I guess. Yeah. I think that’s a really good analogy. That is. Because it takes out maybe the pressure also of feeling like oh I can’t do this because I don’t know the words. You can just act like you know and it’ll happen for you I like that. Yeah you live the life. Very cool. Yeah I like that a lot. Yeah but I have to say that in this country you are very very patient about. Waiting and giving people time to express ideas. And that helps a lot. Well that’s probably because we speak English but none of us do a very good job of it. So we’re such a mixture of people here. We are a melting pot of people here in the United States where everyone has a different background. Well my grandparents didn’t speak English when they got here. A lot of people don’t speak English when they come here. Yeah. And this is the new land to discover. And learn about it. And learn about it. Yeah. Well I know when we were talking initially Natalie you had spent some time in France and you had some very fun stories. How did that experience shape your creativity? Well the front my experience for us was very interesting to me because I started my reading about Europe through my advice or for my master and she was from la Martinique from the Caribbean island. And she started opening the world for me from the French speaking countries. What shows me when I went to France is that I knew nothing about the world that I was living in a tiny beautiful and really loving place for it put me and spot were discovered that it was more. And that feeling of. Being so overwhelmed by the history of other places opened the doors for like everything to me. And I also could discover the links at least what I could see for myself between the old world. What it means they all world and what it means to be like call me from the new world. And that was so I felt so passionate about it. And these gentlemen philosopher and I’ll try to translate a little bit because I have the Spanish translation but he said something that yeah we can measure. How we know about something. But in what we don’t know we are all equals. And that was I discover in France. That’s very interesting. The thing about is very profound. The interesting thing about Europe is there’s a lot of antiquity there in history even our language even the English language started in Greece and Rome and other areas where the language had transcended all the different countries to where America is definitely relatively young. It’s very young. It doesn’t have the history that Europe has doesn’t have the buildings the architecture the literature the music all of that comes out of Europe. So I can see where when you entered various parts of your perspective France because Francis got a tremendous history I could see for you the way you think and the way you’re educated you must have really enjoyed that immensely. Yeah yeah and all I was in Paris and the aggressiveness of the city was choking and also help me to build also kind of a different character. So I found that I had like my American character. My French character and my Venezuelan one is like living in different personalities all the time. Kind of fun. I assume I assume you bought the appropriate clothes. You could fit to those characters. Yeah yeah yeah it was kind of fun and I learned so much.

00:30:00 – 00:35:05

You know we before we get into discussing your photography which we’re excited to do I’d like you to share with us a little bit about your research on ritual music I thought some of the things you shared with us were very interesting. Well I did during my education. I always try to link what I wanted or let’s say a phenomenon to music because I used to play the tale of for a long time. So I really wanted to keep the music in every part of my life. And I got married to a musician so that’s I would wait to wait. Yeah for sure. But I was interested in this retail coal elris told us because he was in the same region where I was born. And it’s a very interesting ritual because the region is isolated and they kept playing and dancing with this particular flute that goes through as they by kind of a bamboo piece. They also have other flutes that they made with. Deers calls. Oh my goodness. And I’ll show them a so I want that to see if music play an important role or what was the role in music in this community. And what I discovered is that in San Pedro I’m a parody which is a community the important that the importance that you have in the community was related to your ability of playing or the role that you play in the real world. Let’s say the person that played the what they consider the best they can consult that people about life about decisions. They are also the ones that get connected to their gods. So they become the philosophers then. Yeah. Yeah and I saw the medium between that sacred world and their normal life. That’s very interesting. So like a shaman almost at that point. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah and it’s a ripple that is. Let’s say the shape of the Red Bull is male the males are the ones that can play the instruments not women. And it’s a circle readable. So there is a center where they put their divinity some of their Catholic saints but also with different layers of meaning that are related to the indigenous world then the musicians play around this center and then the woman can be around like going in circles like clockwise or the opposite. So that structure of the ritual was also the structure of the social dynamics. The most important people are the one that can connect with that center. And that’s the center of the world. And they use the retail mostly for teal it or asking for things like health like rain like the river to have more water and that was a big opportunity and amazing opportunity for me to start thinking about the role of music in their society but also in our societies. That’s extremely interesting. That is so interesting. Now how did you see yourself connecting with that on a spiritual level? Well because. Happening in the same region where I was born. I feel that that’s part of my life too is part of what the people that was first but to see and do in order to have a better life. And that’s part of who am I. My more remembers like people saying that they were going to the bile a tourist. So I’m connected to that in a historic level but also in a deeper way. Yeah you would be because you would feel the energy from your community and although that were participating in it at all levels. Yeah and it is fun because when I was there and I still don’t have kids but at the time the chief of the retail always said to me oh Natalie you need to have kids. I’ll tell this prayer for you. At least some of them. And I was yeah let’s say let’s do it. Let’s see what happens. He’s being helpful. I like it. So sweet. You know I know that we wanted to talk a little bit about you as a writer. What has been your greatest experience and personal rewards as you write? Writing for me is so important.

00:35:06 – 00:40:13

And I do it because I feel like I need it. And I feel and this sound I know this sounds like very cliche. Well I’m happy really happy. If I get to chair where I write with people I love. So that’s probably the most important thing. If I get my dad to read what I’m writing and if he gets to connect with that world that’s more than happy. I will be more than happy. But also something that happened with writing is that the economy in a way because a sense of freedom in a sense of control. So if I get to reach that level of freedom and control when I’m writing that’s very rewarding. That’s something that I want to keep for me for the rest of my life. I think that’s very special because all too often writers only think about their audience as a large group of people but really if you I know I really feel good when my daughter reads the things I write and I know Angie feels the same because our daughters our daughter knows us so well. She has an opportunity to see how we think and entirely different realm. It’s not like a parent but it’s like a saying things that we feel deeply inside. There were no typically express. So I could see where you’re coming from on that Natalie. That’s pretty special. I really like the analogy of Javier dad read what you have written. I can see where that would be very special to you. Yeah and at the end it’s all about connecting. Absolutely. That’s what matters. If you get to connect I think there are so reasons to continue doing it. Sure. You know you hold several degrees and one of them is an art history. I was curious how that has impacted your creativity. Well you know that I think I didn’t know what it means to go for art history when I started. I knew that I wanted to go something related to humanity but I didn’t know why it means. And I knew about the great desire and this books that show you the genuine of the world but something that impacted me was getting to know Venezuelan artists and Latin American artists because that’s something that doesn’t have that the same impact in publications and magazines and media. So getting to know that you don’t need to be that renaissance genius in order to create that people to create a life and doing it every day around you in your country. In your continent. That was a very powerful thing to experience. And discovering that the dynamics of power that if you have power and country with more money have more power you get your work exposed for in our countries unfortunately we don’t get the same exposure. So again to that point was very important for me in the art history like part of my life. The whole thing about creativity we always say this it doesn’t matter what you do creatively as long as you do something or we think you should do something. The simplest things that you can do making a piece of carving a piece of wood or whatever bring I think a kind of a special energy to your soul and your well-being. So you have the opportunity to see what the artists in your country are doing pretty special because most people don’t ever really get to see that especially at the street level. They really don’t. Yeah and I think that is fortunately changing with social media and with spaces like this one that you have because you get to know people in other places in other spaces in any area but this was before social media. So you get content mainly in classrooms or libraries but right now you have the opportunity to learn in your hand. So I’m so glad that we are getting to this point that you can see like graffiti artists street artists and the discovery that the discovery process I think is faster than it was when I was at the university. Yeah and that’s. Growing exponentially because we have the opportunity to see artists from South America and in fact one of our most famous paintings that both engine I love flaming June is in a museum in South America.

00:40:14 – 00:45:05

So someday we hope to see it in person. So you know so true and nowadays with the way social media is it’s kind of nice because you can have instant exposure within seconds of posting something around the world and influence people and touch people inside. And I think that that’s where social media really shines. Well we wouldn’t be talking to Natalie. No we wouldn’t. We wouldn’t have known you. So this is a cool thing. Yeah very cool thing. Yeah. So with all of your education in your life experiences they seem to lead you to pursue photography. Can you share with us what were some of the challenges you faced especially adapting your educational background to creating with a camera? I think that I didn’t need to adapt my education to the image making process because I think that’s part of who am I or who I am. I don’t know why it’s a correct way there. But I think what I did and I’m still doing my commitment to discovering or learning is something that is there and is linked to all the postal activities that I do in my everyday. But I. Learn about it is that you don’t need to weigh others to define you and what you do. You do and let’s say you build your identity about doing stuff and you don’t need other to tell you well you are a photographer or you are a narrative. If you are taking pictures you are taking pictures and that’s enough you don’t need others to recognize where you are doing. So that’s what I learned and probably what I did but I went through leaving my educational background and taking the pictures. Well you’re smart because the best thing the best photographs are made by people that are actually out there taking pictures. I noticed every photographer has a tendency to photograph a particular subject that they find most rewarding to take photographs of and I’ve noticed that you produce several images street scenes if you will what goes on in your mind when you’re out searching for that perfect photograph that demonstrates humanity if you will. Well when I arrived here something that happened is that I didn’t know English. So the camera became my way to connect to let fear to embrace being brave in a way and what I wanted was going to the streets and get the strength to look people through their eyes and take the photo. And what I wanted was to flow with them kind of dance with the situation me taking the pictures and people in that performance that is going to the street. And probably getting connected to that pretty bearable space that is between you the others and the experience of taking the pictures and creating a reality that will be always circle in a circle there in time and owning you like building a dynamic where you have the power even though you don’t know how to say hi or ask for cheese or they have or a conversation you can always go out and connect with people in that prevail space. So that’s why it’s in my mind and still is in my mind when I try to go out and look for a human interactions. Well you’ve done a very good job of it and people that have the opportunity and will have the opportunity to visit your website. They’re going to see some pretty remarkable images but I also have to say that they are very personal. I can sense what you’re thinking about when you actually take some of those photographs. They’re not what I would consider to be typical street photographs that often show people in misery. Yours are actually for the most part celebrations in life. And I really respect you for that. I want to ask you what do you hope to accomplish in the next two years? You’ve done so much so far.

00:45:06 – 00:50:00

Right. I want to keep breathing and being alive. That’s a good goal. That’s a good goal. And then I would like to keep exploring different ways of seeing and life here with consent is very still. So you have to put some effort to look at things in different ways. So in the next two years probably will be exploring those ways. Looking for ways to get amazed by the same corners or angles or buildings or human activity. That’s where I want. Well, you’ll achieve that I think we are actually already on your way. Yeah, it’s not like being in a super cosmopolitan area like New York or Los Angeles where there’s just so much going on. It’s hard to decide which direction to point your lens. But you’re kind of an area that also has a lot of nature going on. So that’s quite quite beautiful where you are. True. Yeah and as something that is interesting now this place is that you feel the machine that is keeping this country up running every day because you have the factories in you have this utility and buildings that are full of people that are working every day very hard in order to keep these things going. So I love the opportunity to feel that energy and that’s why I would like to see and to learn to see. So that’s really wonderful. That’s wonderful. And my question is going to be what do you want to be most remembered by? This is a difficult one. I know it’s hard. Probably. I like to be remembered that as the crazy cat ladies who know. That’s too sweet. Yeah I love my guts. Well that’s admirable I like that. I’m going to ask you a tough question though in 5 words or less what would be your advice to people that want to live or be more creatively? Now you can have more than 5 words. Okay no pressure. No pressure. Probably I would say open your eyes every day and imagine. That’s really good advice. That’s really good advice. Probably some of the best advice we’ve received. Yeah. Yeah. Okay so now we’re going to ask you the question that we’ve been asking all of our guests which is if you could sit on a park bench in chat with anyone from the past who would it be? Well I think if I could get the opportunity I love to get in a bench conversation. With Nicolas federman he was a German traveler in this 16th century and he went to Venezuela with these dream of discovering to find in Eldorado. Oh yes. Okay. So he got there and he started like these huge mission of traveling and going through the forest. And I would like to get in touch with him and ask him how was it? Especially at the period of time that he was doing it. Yeah in he was in terms of going through and getting those with the indigenous people that was there and the ones that the related to a community that I used to go there. So that would be I think a very fun conversation. I would think so. You know. You’ve been a remarkable guest Natalie and very intelligent. Conversations with you have been just absolutely delightful. I know both engine and I really enjoyed everything. You had to say unfortunately we’re kind of running out of the end of our time but you’re great absolute great. I agree with you rod. And I want to let everyone know if you would like to know more about Natalie. We will have links for her under the show guest tab on thought row podcast dot com so everyone can learn more about her and connect with her on social media. And please check out our website. Yeah it definitely worked looking at that. Thank you so much for this opportunity. And this is amazing and I love being in this space and having the opportunity to have a conversation with amazing people like you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you to say okay well I guess bye for now.

00:50:02 – 00:50:22

Bye. Thank you so much. Bye bye. I’m really glad you tuned in today. We hope you enjoyed the thoughts and ideas we shared with you. We post a new podcast every week so remember to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don’t miss an episode. So it’s by for now from my husband rod and I wishing everyone a great day.